魔兽世界（台）还有人在吗？？

sh3nl0n9

junkai 发表于 27-5-2013 08:21 AM
重甲的，除了dk和战士，还有圣骑士，而圣骑士似乎是最容易的哦，哈哈，另外圣骑士可以tank和补，你tank不 ...

圣骑士是最容易吗？我听别人说操作的来都很难哦

可能还是会玩DK专DPS吧

远程的真的玩起来没啥feel

junkai

sh3nl0n9 发表于 27-5-2013 12:17 PM
圣骑士是最容易吗？我听别人说操作的来都很难哦

可能还是会玩DK专DPS吧

你不喜歡遠程就沒辦法了。。

近戰怎說都比較難，走位我覺得就是一門挺煩挺累的功夫。。

DK和聖騎士應該是最容易用的坦。

DK的DPS高也要看情況啊。。不是dk可以控制的有時候，要看怪物。。

Ghostz

DK坦是所有坦裡面最難的,至少在大災變後的版本是這樣的

比起其他的坦職,他有更多的不穩定因素,所以要成為一個好的DK,必須付出很多的努力才行

kws

現在已經沒容易的坦了 , 即使是最容易的聖騎士坦也要看准時機才打正義盾擊 , 不然身為血量加成最低的坦很容易就半死

另外潘達利亞地區的怪對法師很不友好 , 攻擊力高各種衝鋒和暈技 , 尤其是螳螂人的地圖 , 遠程都玩過的我覺得法師在那邊是最辛苦的 , 沒兩下就要坐下吃東西回血 , 反而warlock有能坦的寵物 , 自己還有一堆恢復技能

junkai

打团队的时候，任何坦都蛮辛苦的。

打H5人本和随机团，坦倒是很轻松。

我的圣骑士坦克，一般打随机团/地城，都没什么留意。。。靠dbm警告而已，不然就是几个按键一直重复按（其实可以设定巨集，一直重复按一个key也可以）。


同意法师很辛苦，可能是因为法师可以唤醒，也有免费食物吃。。
我法师有选魔法盾，一般小怪没问题。

现在几乎所有职业都有治疗的技能，至少天赋也有可以选的，就是因为5.0成了每日地狱，每个职业都有必要单独做许多要打很多怪的日任，所以给个有治疗的技能。

swmoo777`

路过此地。。

liew01

jarliew#6202
各位請加我! 謝謝
一個人玩，在慢慢摸索

junkai

魔兽……沉迷了就不怎么来这里，来这里要不是还没玩，或者刚玩，或者不太想玩了。。

Ghostz

是魔獸根本不能玩好嗎...

我正在等暴雪新作Titan,明年新年期間應該會CB

junkai

我還是覺得這遊戲不差，‘根本’不好玩就太武斷了，遊戲，又有哪一個是永久好玩的？

Ghostz

說一句坦白話,如果論畫面論系統來說,魔獸並不是最好的,可是為甚麼魔獸還可以佔據網游龍頭的位置那麼久呢?

答案就是"人性"

現在的魔獸為了招來更多的玩家,在暴雪大刀闊斧的修改下,已經淪為確確實實的"商品"了

當這個遊戲少了"人性",那這個遊戲就變得和其他網游沒甚麼分別

魔獸銷量報表
http://wow.17173.com/content/2013-05-09/20130509174118427.shtml

http://wow.17173.com/content/2013-05-16/20130516113218171.shtml

那些花儿他们还在吗？评点伴随WOW一路走来的竞争对手

http://wow.17173.com/content/201 ... 173841230_all.shtml

魔兽世界顶级公会Exodus宣布解散

http://wow.17173.com/content/2013-05-13/20130513164556233.shtml

细数暴雪5.3八宗罪——看看魔兽是如何毁掉的

http://wow.17173.com/content/2013-05-29/20130529172150860.shtml



暴雪新作"泰坦"相關新聞

http://wow.17173.com/content/2013-05-17/20130517174512133.shtml

nothingcanlose

好玩吗 ？我也想玩玩。

kws

我觉得说随机团本毁了魔兽的人是很自私的 , 日子久玩腻了还非要找借口 ,

当年没有随机 , 虽然玩家的人数比现在还多  , 但能见到奈法利安兄妹,克苏恩,60年代的naxx , 凯尔萨斯,伊利丹还有巫妖王的玩家可能还不到50%  , 很多玩家同样付了钱又不能和常打团队的玩家受到同等的待遇

junkai

啊，被系统弄掉了，没存到。。

==那些链接我会去看看的，很有兴趣。

我其实也赞同许多你说的，暴雪让很多人走了，也太商业化了，台服尤其有这个感觉。

我不少朋友账号被锁的莫名其妙。我陪这他们花了20多天，天天讨伐，事后证明了是他账号也不给恢复。。真是无奈，而且他们换了几个客服来回答，有些不知前因后果就一口拒绝，却原来是误会我们的要求。

junkai

随机团其实有它的好处，来自玩家的褒贬都有……一言难尽。

打团的优势明显比随机好啊……有难度所以奖励也好。

而且，就是因为人开始少了，暴雪才推出随机团，并不是随机团让人跑。另有其他来自玩家自己的原因，也有其他是暴雪造成的因素，让人数少了。

我想说，就算魔兽越来越好玩……但是一定程度上，玩过的，都会逐渐玩腻而想要离开。
我很多朋友离开，是因为他们的朋友因为现实问题离开了，我留下也是因为公会会友和朋友还很多，我们还是有交谈聊天，一起做一点任务，打本，杀人等等。

Ghostz

冰凍三呎,非一日之寒,LFR的問題,雖然不是造成玩家離開的主因,但是裡面所牽涉的Chain Effect卻是很巨大的

以下是國外知名遊戲論壇MMO Champion所刊載的Blue Tweet,也就是歐美魔獸玩家和暴雪的Dev Team對於LFR的問題上的談話

這裡只列出部分相關內容,媒介語主要是英文,有興趣的請自行翻譯

黑色字體 - 玩家對話
藍色字體 - 暴雪回復

2013年4月的新聞
原文連接http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/?page=14

Incomplete LFR Runs

Honestly, I think that this phenomenon will settle down once the ToT LFRs are on cakewalk mode. All the 5.0 LFRs are snooze fests now (never a wipe) even on alts with crap gear.

If the current situation (half done raids) is bothering you, I suggest waiting until each wing is 2 weeks old before doing it. Already, Part 1 of ToT is a breeze and Part 2 only really stumbles on Mr Turtle (more from tank disagreements than difficulty) from what I have seen on various alts.

To further reinforce this, our data shows that the success rates in each new Throne of Thunder LFR wing are close to par with those of Dragon Soul, Mogu'shan, Terrace and Heart of Fear LFRs when they were first released. Statistically, the success rates in a new LFR wing roughly double within 2-3 weeks of release, and we're comfortable with that. As those success rate increase, the cycle of people dropping early due to group failure decreases substantially, and that should really add stability, in terms of players being much more likely to be put into a fresh instance if they weren't the first time around.

The system was supposed to prioritize people for a new instance if they joined one already in progress. It currently doesn't. So now you're forced to do the same boss twice, and only have a chance at loot once.

This makes it a bad system. Is that hard to grasp? You make sure we can't complete normals/heroics more than once per week.

It's an absolute fact that the system HIGHLY prioritizes you for a fresh instance if you're queueing solo and have already completed an in-progress version of that instance in a given week. What the system won't do, however, is lock you out of being put into an instance indefinitely because it can't match enough people together with that same priority to make a proper raid group.

And, while it is true that a boss you've already killed won't drop items for you when it dies, you can still use a bonus roll if you have one.


Going to be simple with you Zarhym, The LFR finder system blows. The loot system is awful. My brother COMPLETED 5, that's right FIVE, unfinished LFRs for the SAME ONE. Only on his 6th try did he finally get a fresh run.

Waiting 30 mins AT BEST to an average of 60 mins a few times a week just to be able to down 1 boss is a joke and many people don't have time for sitting around. You said that people had priority for a "fresh run" after completing an unfinished one. So? where is that?

Like I said, the system tries to strike a balance between being accommodating, and being efficient. If you've completed an in-progress dungeon and requeue, the matchmaking system will prioritize you for a fresh run. This was happening very normally in LFR after being introduced in patch 5.1. That said, if the rate at which people are abandoning in-progress instances hits a high enough threshold, the matchmaking system isn't going to be able to both backfill raids AND create fresh ones in a reasonable timeframe. This is what you're seeing in the new dungeon wings as more groups struggle with less familiar content.


從這個貼看來,不難看出目前LFR玩家的技術水平

Ghostz

原文連接
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/?page=14

WoW Changes Over Time

I think any new player who has been exposed to more than a couple of hours of online gaming would feel insulted by how stupidly easy it is. The only challenge is not falling asleep within 10 minutes of starting a session.

Any new player would probably try to understand what's going on, what is he/she supposed to do, how that particular class plays, familiarize himself/herself with the area where he/she's playing...

Generalizations like this one aren't really helpful in these discussions.

You mean about 1 afternoons work for a new intern? There have been literally dozens of constructive posts on how to do this. One very easy way of beginning to reimplement challenge to the levelling process is to re-introduce orange/red quests.

Changing anything in a game is not as simple as going in and changing numbers. It's easy to pull numbers out of thin air to make an argument look stronger, but the fact is, at the end of the day it's just made up numbers. (And there's also the underlying discussion if the leveling experience should be challenging for newcomers and veteran players alike, and so on).

Orange quests still exist. But keep in mind the color of the quest is only an indicator of how hard that quest will be based on your character level. If your character is level 40, and the quest you want to do is for level 44, it'll be displayed orange. While, if the quest is for level 30, it'll be grey.

Back in Vanilla WoW, if you were in, say, Eastern Plaguelands, at level 50, maybe you'd be able to take quests for levels 52 and 59, while one would be yellow, the other one would be displayed red. Now, since Eastern Plaguelands is a level 40-45 zone, you'll get quests within that level range.

I would have to dedicate myself to do challenge mode dungeons, as I would have to be online together with four other people. PvP is not challenging, only part of that which is challenging is high end arena and what do you know, you need time and dedication to get there. Soloing raids... is that really all that is left? In Rift you find challenge in almost everything you do, from zone events to normal dungeons.

You can also do the Brawler's Guild content, which is quite challenging (particularly at Rank 7 and above).

for example, once upon a time you had to play a class to really understand how to play it, all the little nuances
now, i honestly believe i could roll a lvl90 (insert class ive never played) and excel at it within minutes.

The game does a much better job these days to tell you the basic things about your class (such as the most important abilities of the talent spec you pick), if you pair that with the amount of online resources available, I wouldn't be surprised if someone can excel at a particular class in a short amount of time after playing with it.

On the other hand, shouldn't the fun of playing the game be at overcoming challenges rather than making the game be obscure at things like not telling you what Hit or Critical strike chance are for? In fact, do you think the raid content would be as difficult as it is these days (mechanic wise) if people were still trying to figure out obscure class mechanics?

Just curious to see what do you mean when you talk about challenges in the game. There's the artificial challenge (understanding what your character does because the game just isn't telling you) or killing an innately difficult raid boss (for which the argument of not having enough time doesn't really work, since you could argue that finding the time required to kill a heroic boss should be, in fact, considered part of that challenge you crave for). (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)


這個貼,可以看到暴雪為了迎來更多的鈔票,不得不對遊戲進行調整,以達到更適合新手的遊戲內容

Ghostz

New Raid Finder Wing Difficulty

原文連接
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/?page=16

I'm personally ok with it if I'm not able to roll over every fight the first day it's available on the LFR. I personally think a sense of progression can be had, even in a group of 25 strangers. There have been some hotfixes already for the fight in LFR, I'm not sure if it needs more, but I'm sure if the designers feel it does they will make them.

Personally I appreciate that some fights require more knowledge and coordination, and aren't surefire gimmies. The fight has been available for 1 day to most of the people attempting it. I'm not sure that's enough information to claim that it's too hard for LFR. My group last night wiped a good number of times and then got it down with about 15 people that did understand the mechanics and were able to pull it off. That felt good to overcome the challenge finally, even if I was one of the dead.

There were a group of people in my guild back in the day that just could not do the Naxxramas Safety Dance on Heigan no matter what. Ever. No matter where you go people will make mistakes, or lack the coordination to overcome some mechanics. Considering the fight was able to done by 15 people in my LFR group last night though, I feel like it's a surmountable challenge even if a large portion of the raid is laying there. And hey, I can get better and maybe won't die next time, right?

One thing to keep in mind was "how many stacks of determination" did you have before you were able to kill the boss. Was the increased dps/health/healing help in determining that only 15 people were needed to kill him?

Maybe? But that's what that mechanic is there for. It helps make up for low damage, or healing, or coordination, or understanding/ability to overcome a fight. The intent was to not make LFR completely different, but help give people boosters when they need them. It's still more efficient to not wipe, and so logically that's what people should still be striving to do.

這算是暴雪亡羊補牢的策略嗎?

Ghostz

Reduced Difficulty of WoW

原文連接
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/?page=17

WoW has now been dumbed down so much to the point that my Dutch 7 yo. nephew can level up to 80 (mage) without knowing any English, thus not having a clue of what spells do and so on. He doesn't read quests because whatever he needs to click on is sparkly, and what he needs to kill is marked red. Arrows lead him in all the directions he needs to go so basically, he doesn't need to do anything other than spam frostbolt and the occasional frostnova or whatever.

Now when I do questing myself instead of letting my nephew do it while I go play guitar or whatever it just hurts my heart to see the old STV "bosses" for example either be completely gone or they're now normal mobs that I kill with 3 spells.. There's no challenge at all in leveling now.

We didn't read quests back then (well, some of us did, and still do) and could do them just fine. You could also level up spamming frostbolt or frost nova, you just had to be careful with how many mobs you were pulling at the same time. And we had sites like Thottbot to go check where quest objectives where (and map addons to get the coordinates). Now those things are built in the game, but it wasn't nothing that didn't exist before.

The STV "bosses" and many other elite quests were changed some time ago. Among other reasons, because it was getting increasingly harder to find players to do that content as we were moving into newer expansions. So, during The Burning Crusade's launch, it was very easy to find players to group up for the elite quests at Hellfire Peninsula, yet at the end of that very same expansion, it was rather difficult to find alts that would help you go through. As you move forward from that content, new players coming up to the game just can't do them because they can't group with people. What's the point of a difficult monster if noone can kill him because you can't find a group at the appropriate level?

Getting into dungeons, and dungeons themselves have turned into the most impersonal experiences I've ever had. Raid/dungeon finder gets me groups while I can AFK and I don't even need to pay attention to the group or talk or whatever because I can solo every dungeon I enter. When I play my tank monk now for example I just tell the healer to go dps spec because I have enough selfhealing to stay alive and mobs don't live longer than 5 seconds. It's boring, tedious and completely ruins my experience in WoW. The other people might as well be NPCs for me because it doesn't change a damn thing about what happens around me.

If you are having an easy time on 5-man heroics, you're more than welcome to try Challenge Modes. Though, if your party overgears the content it's to be expected that it won't be too difficult (but again, this is nothing new, it was being done in previous expansions as better gear was being released).

New raids are cleared within the first 10 hours they're out, no challenge there.

Which one?
Throne of Thunder's Heroic race is still on (and it wasn't released 10 hours ago).

And also, unless you have cleared it, the challenge is there, waiting for you. If you refuse to do it that's entirely a different topic.

So yeah, am I the only person who thinks WoW too dumbed down and is no longer challenging? Let me know.

You aren't, but I would recommend you reading this answer I made about this topic as well as that thread. Might be useful


遊戲的挑戰性到底去那了?

Ghostz

Vanilla WoW Nostalgia

原文連接
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/?page=28

Answer can be found in the vid I posted above, game is hardly any time consuming now.

It really depends on which activity are you doing. Sure, if you only do dailies, scenarios, etc, it doesn't take much time. If you want to cap your valor points, you'll have to put some time into the game, though.

If you're chasing Heroic raid kills, you'll have to devote time as well. That's the beauty of the game these days, you can devote as much time as you want (and your reward will probably be comparable to how much time you've spent).

It doesn't matter if you don't get to see an end boss, it tells you hey I need to put some effort into this game if I want to do it, and before I get to see the end boss I have to experience the other fights as well.

For some it does. It was kinda weird for some people to see Illidan on the cinematic in TBC and never get to see him while he was current content because of .

If you don't have enough time well that is a different thing, but allow people that have or find time and put effort to feel awarded for it, don't just let everyone who can press Join LFR see and defeat the boss.

People that have time (and the will) can defeat Heroic bosses and get rewarded much more than someone seeing the content through LFR. And from time to time there're bosses that are exclusive to Heroic raiders (Algalon, Sinestra, and now Ra-den when 5.2 is released).

That's what in my opinion new WoW will never have and why old way of raiding will always be better than the current one, it simply does not feel rewarding enough for people that want to put effort and this has absolutely nothing to do with nostalgia because it's a fact, whoever raided whoever spent hours grinding/gearing after finishing what they started (eg Illidan) they could say I feel proud of myself and get a sense of accomplishment something people today will NEVER feel.

It's your opinion, so you can't make it a fact. I feel as proud of my Arthas kill as I do of my TBC/Wrath/MoP kills. It's just up to you to how much importance you wish to give to those events.

For me Arthas ranks higher than the others. Why? Because I've liked the Lich King character for a really long time and I feel his story (Arthas) was interesting to me.

Anyone saying FOR A FACT that any stage of this game was the best, is a person unable to grasp the simple concept of "subjectivity". What one considers the peak of existence for this game, others didn't even bother coming back to beyond reaching max level.

True. As much as I love those evenings in BRD with my friends, I wouldn't have the time for it today. Time changes.

If you had a good guild with a sufficient array of active people, you had it all. If you didn't? Well, you best get searching! Happened to level on a medium pop server that died before you hit 70? You better transfer!

In fact, I remember some guilds became "feeders" of the most progressed guilds on the realm, so these guys could never really climb through the ranks because they kept losing raiders to guilds with more progress.

Most people are just nostalgic. Nobody remembers the monotonous, the day to day. Everyone remembers the peaks. Do you remember the grind between 55 and 58?

This is true, we tend to forget the bad memories and keep the bright ones. Back in Vanilla, I leveled my first character from 58 to 60 just circling Corin's Crossing because it was most efficient than trying to quest back then. And it wasn't terribly fun...

For me, BC had its perks (I cleared everything but SWP before the great nerf). I enjoyed it overwhelmingly, and believed there was nothing greater than THAT era, even in WOTLK or Cata. Come Mists, I can now appreciate the range of content, the ease, the beauty of choice, etc. that was not there in BC. As mentioned before, I would like the sense of a community back and not just the current XBOX live crowd, but if that requires removing LFD/ LFR, then I'd rather stick with ignoring people.

But even these days, you surely have your community, right? I mean, your own circle of friends (perhaps your entire guild, perhaps just some guildies and a couple friends on the realm).

We're all part of the same community. If anything, I'd say now we have the luxury of deciding when and how we want to participate with strangers. Before it was your only way of accessing to certain content (5-man PuGs or more progressed raiding guilds) and as with everything else in life, at times you'd have wonderful experiences and at times absolutely miserable ones.

So, was that better than being able to stick with your friends and try to go as far as possible? It's really up to each individual. Some people love to make new friends, some would rather stick to their circles.

WoW was better because the community was far better. All this LFG/LFR stuff ruined the community, but certainly brought in the big bucks.

The community wasn't really better. Perhaps what happened was that the interaction was more limited? Through the Finder tools you can literally encounter hundreds of players every single day, it's hard to not come across a rotten apple every so often. Back then we didn't even have a Raid Finder, so most experiences with large groups were on PVP, and I'm fairly sure we all have memories of how heated the BG chat would be at times, as well as players from the opposite faction shouting text that was offensive for your team.

The bad apples were already there, but our exposure as individuals... I'd wager it was much smaller, since even arranging a 5-man group (a pure PuG, that is) was a rather lengthy process.

It's human nature, we naturally dislike change. I guarantee if you go on any popular game forum you'll see how terrible people think that game is now compared to how it used to be.

Oh, but this happens even on games that are yet to be released... There'll always be people hoping for something that is not what they feel they're getting.

Playing the devil's advocate here, but basically The game now is just this
1)ACCEPT QUEST
2) OPEN MAP
3) COMPLETE QUEST BY GOING TO THE NUMERS ON YOUR MAP
4) VIEW ALL MAJOR PVE CONTENT IN LESS THEN A DAY BY PRESSING QEUE (FEEL FREE TO AFK IN LFR)
5) THE PEOPLE YOU MET IN CROSSREALM ZONES, DUNGEONS, RAIDS, SCENARIOS, PVP YOU'LL MOST LIKELY NEVER SEE AGAIN

Back then it was something like this...
1) Accept quest
2) Minimize WoW, check in Thottbot (for example) the quest(s?)
3) Complete quest going to the noted coordinates.
4) Minimize WoW, go to youtube, view all major PVE content in a couple hours by pressing "play" (Feel free to kick back and relax)

Point 5 doesn't really apply here because we didn't have Cross-realm zones, dungeons, raids, scenarios back then, but it did apply on PVP however.

Looking back at the other 4 points. We could argue the first three now have reduced hassle. And I don't know about you, but I'd rather take part on viewing all major PVE content and achieve it by myself (no matter if its on LFR, Normal or Heroic) than see some random pixel heroes go do it while I'm left trying to figure out what's going on


歐美玩家和暴雪之間對於PVE生態的討論