问。。人和猩猩，人猿能不能杂交？？

xeoc

世界上有出现老虎和狮子杂交生子的案列。虽然死亡率很高。。
但记得有成功存活好几个月的。。目前死了没就不知道啦

人和猩猩，人猿能不能杂交呢生子呢？？？就好像马和驴生骡一样。。
你们认为可以吗？？

俠客

當然不能,
現在的人類不可能破解基因的奧秘......

因為學習基因並不是用來做 動物雜交 這類無聊的實驗;
而是要更加進一步了解自己的一切 ......

xeoc

俠客 于 7-5-2004 01:37 AM  说 :
當然不能,
現在的人類不可能破解基因的奧秘......

因為學習基因並不是用來做 動物雜交 這類無聊的實驗;
而是要更加進一步了解自己的一切 ......

你的回答很奇怪。。我是在问。。人和人猿能生出孩子吗
狮子和老虎生出了孩子。马和驴生了骡。。人类并没有破解他们的基因啊
我问的问题和破解基因毫无关联。。。
而且我也不是问道德伦理。。我只是问能生出孩子吗

俠客

那,

如果在自然的環境或方式下不同種的生物交配是很難生下一代,
但是要是以實驗或人工方式培育
理論上是可以培育出下一代的....

prince

能！如果你有这方面嗜好的话！

yaoxin

答案是不能﹗因為人與猩猩的基因組(genome)是不同的(不能夠相合為一)。以雜交方式是不可能得到下一代。

yaoxin

人類擁有23對染色體﹐而猩猩(chimpanzee)擁有24對染色體。若有疑問可以參考以下網站﹕

http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/sld071.html

xeoc

那请你解释为和。。老虎和狮子能生出虎狮？？？
他们的来源是非洲和西伯利亚

我觉的可以的。。但会有基因缺陷。

xeoc

http://tech.enorth.com.cn/system/2003/04/10/000542153.shtml

http://tech.enorth.com.cn/system/2003/07/21/000600415.shtml   【多图】中国最长寿的虎狮兽已存活114天


只是从报刊杂志等媒介上了解过“虎狮兽”的沈教授认为，“虎狮兽”的出现，是人为条件下的特殊事件，它的生存令人惊叹。沈教授说，自然界每一个物种都有其自身的遗传性和稳定性，一般情况下是“狮子生狮子，老虎生老虎”。长沙世界之窗的母狮“玛丽”来自非洲，生活在平原。公虎“奇奇”来自孟加拉，是丛林动物。正常情况下，狮、虎的生存环境是不同的、一般不会碰面。但在动物园和马戏团里，各种动物长期生活在一起，跟同类的接触已相对较少。动物同样有七情六欲，相互间很容易产生感情。所以这次小“虎狮兽”的出生，就源于这样的特殊生存环境。

　　生物学常见不同“品种”之间的杂交，狮子和老虎同属猫科，但它们不同种。与人们常见的马和驴交配生下骡相比，小“虎狮兽”的出生还是很难得的。毕竟马和驴已被人们饲养了很长时间，其家畜性远胜于野性。并且马和驴是较为相近的物种，怀孕的机会大很多。狮子和老虎交配生下“虎狮兽”极为偶然，并且其后代的抵抗力极差，成活率很低，自身也没有生殖能力。

yaoxin

地方來源並不是很重要﹐美洲人與亞洲人不是一樣可以通婚生小孩。
請細讀以下引述﹕

Genetic impossibilities:

The relatively new science of genetics has shown that successfully producing offspring from a cat and a rabbit is impossible.

Rabbits and cats are two different species. They do not carry the same number of chromosomes. All but two of the cat species have 19 pairs of chromosomes. The rabbit has 22 pairs. That's 38 chromosomes as compared to 44.

You can only hybridise animals which are genetically alike. This means lions can mate with tigers because they are both members of the cat family. Horses can mate with donkeys and produce mules. Again, they are all part of the same family and very alike genetically. Both have the same number of chromosomes. Even with these close hybridisations many, perhaps almost all, offspring will be infertile.

Claims of genetically engineered cabbits are also impossible. Genetic engineering is still many decades away from being able to accomplish such advanced work.

獅子與老虎之所以可以雜交並生下后代是因為它們的基因組相近﹐而且它們擁有同樣染色體的數目。
為什么必須擁有同樣染色體的數目﹖因為卵子和精子個自帶有一半的遺傳資訊(DNA)﹐也就是說兩者合一就能得到完整的遺傳資料﹐不可以多﹐也不可以少。如果染色體的數目不同的話﹐完整的基因組就不能形成﹐下一代也就不能形成了。

希望能夠回答到您的疑問。

xeoc

亚洲人和美洲人。。都是人分化出来的嘛。。
可是狮子和老虎却是“起源”于非洲和西伯利亚。。再散布到全球。
而人是起源于一个地区。。再散布全球。。
以你这样诠释。。亚洲人和美洲人是不同物种了。。因为你认为有两个起源点嘛


我当然了解基因必须完整配对。。但必须知道万事有列外
我们人类的唐氏综合症就是一个例子
他们的基因比正常人多一条。。（他们的智商也低）
所以说我不认为一定要基因完整配对才可以产生下一代。
老虎和狮子统属猫科。。。但他们也差很多也
人和猿也同属灵长类。

我说的人和猿是建立在。。他们的下一带可能会有严重的基因缺陷。。
而我探讨的是能于不能。。不是正常于不正常。

”This means lions can mate with tigers because they are both members of the cat family.“
你别跟我说人和猿不是same family.

foxngn

这问题我看你需要问美国的科学家

rickykkh

人和其他生物绝对有可能生下不同的下一代！
但，人类染色体复杂的结合程序使其他染色体无法交融！
所以，咱们只好等待基因科学家有更深的突破！

yaoxin

我覺得你用Down's Syndrome (Trisomy 21) 的例子並不恰當,因為畢竟這種案例是以人與人交配為大前提﹐而且只是chromosome 21 受影響﹐其它22對的染色體還沒有受到影響。人與猩猩的基因組根本是兩組不同DNA﹐而且基因也分佈在不同的染色體上﹐再加上各自擁有不同的染色體數目﹐我看不出有相配的可能性。

再轉載一則新聞﹐有關猩猩基因組的研究報告的新聞(from www.the-scientist.com)﹕



Chimps are not like humans Whole-chromosome comparison reveals much greater genetic differences than expected | By Cathy Holding



The vigorous debate on how different chimpanzees are from humans is fuelled by new data in this week's Nature, as the International Chimpanzee Chromosome 22 Consor---m reports that 83% of chimpanzee chromosome 22 proteins are different from their human counterparts.

The difference is "much more complicated that we initially imagined or speculated," Yoshiyuki Sakaki, who headed the consor---m, told The Scientist.

"Our group completed the human chromosome 21 sequence about 3 years ago," Sakaki, director of the RIKEN Genomic Sciences Center, Yokohama City, Japan, told The Scientist. Chimpanzee chromosome 22 is the ortholog of human chromosome 21. Despite being very small, human chromosome 21 contains a number of interesting features, including functional genes, centromere and telomere chromosomal structures, and insertions and deletions including Alu and other repetitive elements, Sakaki said.

"So if we analyze this [chimpanzee] chromosome, we can estimate the overall events that have taken place," Sakaki said.

The team sequenced bacterial artificial chromosome genomic DNA libraries from male chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes) and aligned chimpanzee chromosome 22 (PTR22) clones with the orthologous human chromosome 21 HSA21q data using NCBI BLAST2 to make a whole-chromosome comparison.

Sakaki said their analysis found about 68,000 insertions or deletions. "That is almost one insertion/deletion every 470 bases," he said. In addition, a small proportion of genes showed a relatively higher rate of evolution than most other genes. "We haven't known what proportion of the genes shows adaptive evolution. This study shows it to be about 2 to 3%," he said.

Early molecular comparisons between humans and chimpanzees suggested that the species are very similar to each other at the nucleotide sequence level—a difference of between 1.23% and 5%, Sakaki said. The results reported this week showed that "83% of the genes have changed between the human and the chimpanzee—only 17% are identical—so that means that the impression that comes from the 1.2% [sequence] difference is [misleading]. In the case of protein structures, it has a big effect," Sakaki said.

But Derek Wildman, at the Center for Molecular Medicine and Genetics at Wayne State University School of Medicine, said that "comparing at least the long arm of these orthologous chromosomes in human and the common chimpanzee showed—to me at least—just how similar humans and chimpanzees actually are."

"[The authors] might have focused a bit with what are the differences, but really what stood out to me was that the chromosomes are nearly the same. There's nothing that major that separates humans from chimpanzees," said Wildman, who was not involved in the study.

Wildman said that his previous comparison between a greater series of primates—humans, chimpanzees, gorillas, orangutans, and old world monkeys—showed that while many important changes in human evolution occurred after humans and chimps last shared a common ancestor, many of them also occurred before that divergence. "So there is a limit to what we can learn from the human–chimpanzee comparisons," he said.

"They found a lot of length differences rather than single-base changes, and the fact that those seem to occur in coding sequences more than expected was one of the surprising findings of the paper," said Matthew Webster, from the Evolutionary Biology Centre at Uppsala University, Sweden. "[The authors] also found that there were more changes than you might expect in length within coding sequences which don't interrupt the function."

Webster said that by incorporating gene expression data with comparisons of the human and chimpanzee genes, the authors had provided an approach that would be important in the future, particularly when the chimpanzee genome was finished.

"[The authors] can compare the rate of adaptive evolution in the genes with the evolution of gene expression, and that will give a much more comprehensive picture of what changes have led to specialization and any specific human features, and so on," said Webster, who was not involved in the study.

Links for this article
J. Weitzman, "How different are we from chimps?" The Scientist, September 26, 2002.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/news/20020926/04/

C. Holding, "Driving man and chimp apart," The Scientist, June 26, 2003.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/news/20030626/01/

International Chimpanzee Chromosome 22 Consor---m, "DNA sequence and comparative analysis of chimpanzee chromosome 22," Nature, 429:382-388, May 27, 2004.
http://www.nature.com/

Yoshiyuki Sakaki
http://www.riken.go.jp/engn/r-world/research/lab/genome/

Derek Wildman
http://www.med.wayne.edu/index.asp

M. Uddin et al., "Sister grouping of chimpanzees and humans as revealed by genome-wide phylogenetic analysis of brain gene expression profiles," PNAS, 101:2957-2962, March 2, 2004.
[PubMed Abstract] [Publisher Full Text]  

Matthew Webster
http://www.egs.uu.se/evbiol/Persons/Matt.html

E. Russo, "Chimp genome released," The Scientist, December 12, 2003.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/news/20031212/07/

秋月春风

这篇引述的资料有误。马和驴的染色体数目不同（马=32对，驴=31对）。即使染色体不能进行配对，顶多只会影响减数分裂（不能生育），不会影响有丝分裂（杂交生物的成长）。不过，如果交配的动物种类基因相差远，那么杂交细胞中的两组基因可能操纵着不同的生化活动，互相干扰，影响细胞的正常生存与分裂。杂交生物在植物界比较常见，相比之下，高级的生物就比较难产生杂交动物（或许是因为细胞中的生化反应比较复杂，不正常的反应马上引发division arrest，或干脆进入凋亡）。

我们对不同基因组的相互作用不了解，所以人和猩猩是否能够杂交很难预测。最好的办法就是通过实验来证明，不过这是违反科学伦理的，没有人会愿意去做。

p/s: 生物论坛难有这么精彩的讨论，欢迎yaoxin网友的参与，为论坛添了不少生气。大家再接再厉哦！

yaoxin 于 5-6-2004 03:16 PM  说 :
You can only hybridise animals which are genetically alike. This means lions can mate with tigers because they are both members of the cat family. Horses can mate with donkeys and produce mules. Again, they are all part of the same family and very alike genetically. Both have the same number of chromosomes. Even with these close hybridisations many, perhaps almost all, offspring will be infertile.

[ Last edited by 秋月春风 on 7-6-2004 at 06:44 AM ]

yaoxin

秋月春风 于 7-6-2004 06:30  说 :
这篇引述的资料有误。马和驴的染色体数目不同（马=32对，驴=31对）。即使染色体不能进行配对，顶多只会影响减数分裂（不能生育），不会影响有丝分裂（杂交生物的成长）。不过，如果交配的动物种类基因相差远，那么 ...

先多謝您的賜教﹗
我覺得科學研究還是以全人類與地球生物的福祉為重﹐不可違反道德倫理。

KyleMichelleGo

哈哈，这话题真有趣。
是的，秋月春风，酱可以拉很多人进来一起讨论讨论！

除了狮子和老虎，驴和马的例子外还有:
斑马和马 - ZORSE


斑马和驴 - ZONKEY


http://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/mysteries/zebra.html
http://equinia.webpark.sk/chov/krizence.htm

竟然连DOLPHIN和WHALE KILLER的结晶-wholphin 都有


http://www.answersingenesis.org/ ... ocs/v22n3_liger.asp

以及不同属类的蛇


到底这些意味着什么呢？

[ Last edited by KyleMichelleGo on 7-6-2004 at 10:51 PM ]

yaoxin

是否意味着人類只要滿足其好奇心就可以。。。。。

KyleMichelleGo

还有还有世界上的各种幻兽是否皆存在着？

xeoc

原来鲸鱼和海豚也可以。。。。
我还是第一次看到呢。
如果把海豚＝人，鲸鱼＝猿。
海豚鲸鱼可以那么人和猿的可能性也很高。
1。他们同是哺乳动物。
2。他们统属鲸类。
3。他们几万年前就分道扬镳了。

1。人+猿也是哺乳动物。
2。人+猿统属灵长类。
3。人+猿几万年前也分道扬镳了。

当然这不足以证明人和猿能生出孩子。
但如果鲸豚也可以。。。那就很神奇了。